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[EASIT intro music]

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EASIT. Easy Access
for Social Inclusion Training.

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Unit 4. The profession.

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Element 2.
Interpersonal skills.

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Interview with a translation provider.

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This video shows an interview
with Nils Wöbke,

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who is head of the bureau
for accessibility

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in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern,
in Germany.

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This organisation belongs
to Lebenshilfewerk Hagenow,

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which is an organisation
that supports persons with disabilities.

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In this interview, Mr Wöbke talks about
the changes and expansion

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that the demand for Easy-to-Read services
have experienced in the past years.

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He explains in the interview
the different approaches

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in the creation and validation
of E2U content in Germany.

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Lastly, he reflects on the possibilities
and limitations of easy-to-read

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and easy-to-understand language
in audiovisual content.

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Let's watch the interview now.

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Hello, my name is
Rocío Bernabé Caro.

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I work at the Internationale Hochschule
SDI München, in Germany.

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It is a pleasure to be here today
to interview Mr Wöbke.

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Good morning, Mr Wöbke.

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Good morning, Mrs Bernabé.

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Thank you for the invitation.

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Many thanks
for being with us here today.

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Mr Wöbke could you please
introduce yourself and your organization?

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As you said, my name is Nils Wöbke.

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I’m the head of the bureau
for accessibility

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in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

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The organization belongs
to Lebenshilfewerk Hagenow.

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We offer accessibility products.

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For example, easy-to-read
and understand information.

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Or usability checks
within the groups of peers

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that our organization is heading out for.

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Or, of course, we are giving seminars
and workshops.

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That is basically what we are doing.

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I have 2 colleagues, 20 hours a week,

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that are working for accessibility.

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One of my colleagues is deaf.

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So we kind of practice everyday
accessibility.

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In Germany,

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there are different approaches
to easy-to-read,

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as well as different
translation networks.

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For instance, your network,

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but also the one
from Netzwerk Leichte Sprache,

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or the one
from the University of Hildesheim.

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What do they all have in common?
Or what are the differences?

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I know pretty much all of them,
in a way.

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I used to begin in Hildesheim,
and I took some seminars and workshops

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with Mrs Maass as a teacher.

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Capito is also member
of the easy-to-read network in Germany.

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There are some common ways
that we share.

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Actually, I would say that the goal
for heading out for understandable,

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 accessible information:

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that is what unites us, of course.

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And that we have peers.

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People, for example,
with disabilities.

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Intellectual disabilities
or learning disabilities

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that prove the information results.

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So we actually get
the transparent information:

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what they understand
and what they do no understand.

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And of course there are so many rules
that you may or should be obliged to.

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I would say most of them are common.

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What maybe not divides us,
of course,

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but would be
a different approach is that,

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within the Capito Network,
we offer different “language steps”,

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competence levels.

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You could translate it
in the easy language,

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in Plain language,

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up to sort of “citizen language”,

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from the A1 to B1
European language level.

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We are getting into different products, 

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information products,
not only the written paper,

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but also digital information,
films and movies.

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The variety maybe is
a little bit more widen.

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Actually, I’m informed a little bit

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via social networks

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and I know that many colleagues
are going in that field too.

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Actually, I would say
[that] we are one broaden group.

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You mentioned [about] having now
more work

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also in audiovisual context,
for audiovisual products.

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And, as you know, in EASIT we focus
on accessible audiovisual content.

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Can you tell us about this shift,
or this change in the demand?

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I think,

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as the whole society is shifting from

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written paper to digital [processes],

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maybe TV, or via smartphone,

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the demands have changed

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within the last 10 years, I would say.

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There are so many people
who can’t read that thoroughly,

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or within the letters

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and sentences.

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So they would have to hear,
for example.

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The digital devices encourage them
and show them ways to handle that.

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I would say, the most important step [is]
to differentiate

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what people need or are used to.

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And not only to offer one product,

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but of course a variety of products

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in order to adapt the environment
so that people get used to.

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So more like creating products
that can be personalized,

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that offer different options.

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Right.
One example could be this one.

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In our Capito Network,
we have the Capito App.

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And users can decide

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in what language level
they would like to read it.

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Of course, integrating pictures,

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that is included.

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Or if they would like to get
the information access via sign language,

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or in the audio way,
with mp3 products.

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I think that would be one example
on how you can reach people.

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Yeah, of course.

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I think what you say is
that technology is allowing us

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to offer more,
and at the same time

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we are all having better skills
about how to use these products.

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Allow me to go back to one point
you mentioned before

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about these digital products.

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You said there are more
audiovisual content,

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more digital content now
that are accessible

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in easy-to-read,
or easy-to-understand.

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What genres are the most common?

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Like, news, or TV series.

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Where is the demand coming from?

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I am working in the field of people
with intellectual disabilities

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and in the field of education somehow,

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in giving assistance
within my organization.

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I certainly would say: information.

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Politics is one example
where we are active in.

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And we see that if you offer seminars,

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workshops, and information,

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people are mostly very glad to talk

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and to communicate
about these topics.

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And of course,

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these are information where
they have a better assistance in life,

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participation.

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Like when they would go shopping,

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they need information too
in everyday life.

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But then also the working skills.

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Working information for safety reasons,

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or in the field of handling a machine,

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or work in restaurants and services,

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information in order to participate
in the labor market.

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Ok.

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I see a similar development in Spain,
I think.

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There is a lot of creation
of easy-to-read,

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or easy-to-understand content

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in the field of politics.

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For example, voting.
How do I vote?

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Do I have the right to vote?

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Education, as you said as well.

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Are audiovisual products
in these cases a help?

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Or do you think that printed, even if it is
digital-printed, like a webpage,

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is more useful for the target audiences
of easy-to-read?

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Or a combination?

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I would say probably a combination
of approaches.

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But I think your approach is very
future-orientated.

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People and you should develop,

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as you probably do,
within the target groups.

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I would say, within my experience,
this is quite a challenge.

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But of course, you can train it.

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You should offer workshops
to experience that.

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Mostly, what we are doing is
to combine easy texts

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and information with workshops,

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in order to assist and discuss.

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I would say this would be
the most [difficult] challenge.

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To include these 2 or 3 activities
within one move,

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in order to obtain the information.

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And it also influences the pace,

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the speed of the information.

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Some people who are blind have
a very fast hearing.

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And other people maybe would need
40 words in a minute

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in order to obtain the information.

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Now we are talking a bit
about the creation process.

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Is the creation process
of printed material the same

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as when you create
audiovisual content?

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Like subtitles, or audio-descriptions,
or in general.

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I would say so.

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Because when you have
a printed product,

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you read the [visualization],

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so it encourages the understanding.

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There are certainly
different approaches.

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When you have movies,

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and you do the easy-language
translation afterwards,

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 and have subtitles,

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I would think that you have to make up
different approaches.

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Where is the appropriate amount
of information,

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and the contrast, and so on.

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And hearing and listening,
and also the patience to keep on

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for maybe 30 minutes or so.

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I would say there should be
good pauses

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and possibilities to stop
and make a rest.

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Or maybe [have] some first introduction

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where the participant gets
an overview somehow.

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Indeed there is a lot
that we are trying out at the moment.

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And different approaches.

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The idea of having introductions
to the product,

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I think this is a great help.

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Because it is an option
so whoever wants to use it, will use it.

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I would say [that] preparation,
in some way, is needed

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when people do not have the experience.

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But I would say,

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first of all, they need
some preparation

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in order to get used to that.

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Yes.

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I hear that involving the user
of the information is very important

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in these contexts, isn’t it?

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Yeah, yeah. For sure.

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When you want to create the product,

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you would need some information

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and some feedback
from the experiences so far

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in order to make the product,
if it is possible.

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And of course then
within the production,

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you certainly need the backup

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and then, after that, too.

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I guess it is not always possible
to validate the content afterwards.

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Because this is very time-consuming.

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I think it is not a matter
of not wanting to do it.

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Can you give us some examples
where it was not possible for you

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to validate the content

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and maybe alternatives
to get feedback?

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Yeah.

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When we produce
easy-to-understand information,

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we certainly would need
the evaluation,

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the validation,
within our Capito standards.

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But sometimes there is less time.

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And then it is probably very important

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to be in contact after using
the product.

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We are nowadays creating
some podcast

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about politics and health issues

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for people with special needs.

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We want to have the experience
of what the audience would think about it.

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We can step into contact via WhatsApp

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and e-mail to search for feedback.

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I would say that is always very important.

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I guess, when in these cases is not going
to be possible to validate

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or to get feedback
before it is published,

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you really rely on the guidelines
that you have, on the rules

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Right.

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And for creation,
you have your own rules

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and then the [ones]
from Inclusion Europe.

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Do you use them all?

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Or do you say: “No, we just stick
to some certain rules”?

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The Capito Network rules are
of course the closest for us,

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because we got [them] evaluated

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within the network.

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I have pretty many rules actually
on my laptop.

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But they are certainly
[more like] routines.

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We try to see in most cases
what is the audience.

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Is it just for a seminar
for 50 people or so?

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Then nowadays we try to use
the Capito App

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to make a variety of approaches.

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OK, so you have different versions
from the beginning, in different levels?

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Right.

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00:18:16,462 --> 00:18:21,849
We somehow try to figure what is
the most common language level

253
00:18:22,008 --> 00:18:28,838
in order to include
some more people.

254
00:18:29,615 --> 00:18:35,131
Yes. I think that is going to be
one of the main points in the future.

255
00:18:35,354 --> 00:18:37,680
Which type of simplification to use.

256
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:43,120
Because Plain Language includes
more people,

257
00:18:43,486 --> 00:18:49,026
but at the same time it might exclude
some other groups.

258
00:18:50,554 --> 00:18:55,483
I think that in the future
there has to be a development.

259
00:18:55,610 --> 00:18:58,196
Either a fusion of both

260
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:05,480
or, as you said, a clear cut and say:
“OK, down to here

261
00:19:05,575 --> 00:19:07,053
of the simplification level,

262
00:19:07,626 --> 00:19:10,390
you are including that many users,

263
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:11,808
and starting there,

264
00:19:12,508 --> 00:19:13,922
-these other users.”
-Right.

265
00:19:14,081 --> 00:19:18,690
We see that of course
sign language has to be offered.

266
00:19:19,836 --> 00:19:25,723
Then of course the accessible documents
for screen readers.

267
00:19:26,137 --> 00:19:30,600
And also easy-to-read

268
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,640
and Plain Language,
both would be helpful.

269
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,969
We have quite some people
with intellectual disabilities

270
00:19:39,096 --> 00:19:45,113
who are better informed
about politics.

271
00:19:45,973 --> 00:19:50,477
They might need cooking recipes
in easy-language

272
00:19:50,604 --> 00:19:54,800
but might be able to follow up
and catch up in Plain Language.

273
00:19:56,347 --> 00:20:00,000
I would say it is the same with me:
I like politics and cooking,

274
00:20:00,191 --> 00:20:04,865
but in technical skills I am very bad,

275
00:20:05,219 --> 00:20:13,130
so I need some easy information on that.

276
00:20:13,289 --> 00:20:15,580
Yes, I understand.

277
00:20:16,153 --> 00:20:20,000
This is the advantage
of writing in a more simple way.

278
00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:21,480
That you reach everybody.

279
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,310
Because, as you said, we all have
our specialized fields,

280
00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:27,660
and then we have
all these other fields

281
00:20:27,787 --> 00:20:29,623
where we really need support.

282
00:20:29,878 --> 00:20:30,661
NILS WÖBKE: Yeah, right.

283
00:20:31,934 --> 00:20:35,931
The view in the future might be [this]:

284
00:20:36,504 --> 00:20:42,296
within the Capito Network,
we are working [on] a product

285
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:46,526
that makes automatic translations.

286
00:20:48,977 --> 00:20:56,097
Of course, this is still in the beginning,
I would say for 2 years now.

287
00:20:56,893 --> 00:21:01,820
Then, people can decide
if they would read it

288
00:21:02,297 --> 00:21:04,421
in easy or Plain Language.

289
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:11,698
Of course, the translators [will]
still need to correct

290
00:21:12,398 --> 00:21:13,889
and look upon that.

291
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,920
Another side of this higher demand
of easy-to-understand

292
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,831
or easy-to-read texts is the profession.

293
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,341
There are new professionals,
many people enter in the field.

294
00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:28,200
Do you think it is possible
to make a living

295
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,519
out of these translations
or adaptations?

296
00:21:35,039 --> 00:21:37,023
For some people probably does.

297
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:39,748
For others, don’t.

298
00:21:40,734 --> 00:21:46,095
Because they have not
the opportunity, or access,

299
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,341
or the input to get into the networks.

300
00:21:53,002 --> 00:21:59,488
My experience for now is 4 to 5 years
of Capito Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

301
00:22:00,284 --> 00:22:01,880
and it is hard.

302
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,927
We need to earn about 700€ a day.

303
00:22:07,945 --> 00:22:12,306
When we give seminars
it would work somehow.

304
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,480
But when we make the information,

305
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,817
then it is almost impossible to make it.

306
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,138
When you offer accessible information,

307
00:22:23,488 --> 00:22:28,257
and the translation is just
one field of it,

308
00:22:28,402 --> 00:22:29,846
then it might work.

309
00:22:30,864 --> 00:22:35,779
But only translating,
this is very hard, I would say.

310
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,920
So more diversification if you are
a translator entering in the field.

311
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:47,760
Like, offering easy-to-understand
content should be one option,

312
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,766
but not the only specialty
at the beginning.

313
00:22:50,893 --> 00:22:52,277
Right. In Schleswig Holstein,

314
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,605
there are 10 to 12 organizations
or people

315
00:22:58,496 --> 00:22:59,732
who are doing that.

316
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,111
In Mecklenburg-Vorpommern,
we are pretty much alone.

317
00:23:04,302 --> 00:23:07,920
For us, in some cases,
it is more convenient.

318
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000
And then of course
we are in the network.

319
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,202
Maybe, to finish up:

320
00:23:12,997 --> 00:23:17,858
what is your advice
for people entering the field

321
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,098
of writing in easy-to-read language?

322
00:23:21,289 --> 00:23:24,903
And also in audiovisual context,

323
00:23:25,571 --> 00:23:27,571
what is your advice for them?

324
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,160
What skills should they have?

325
00:23:29,253 --> 00:23:31,991
What preparation should they undergo?

326
00:23:32,150 --> 00:23:37,474
I would say first of all, it is important
to have a good education, of course.

327
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,151
Like in Hildesheim.

328
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:45,357
This probably helps a lot: to be
more diverse in the offer of your variety.

329
00:23:46,662 --> 00:23:50,000
You have to be a good networker,
of course, I would say.

330
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,796
In order to get into different fields.

331
00:23:55,540 --> 00:24:02,710
You need to approach into fields
where easy-language is not [present] yet.

332
00:24:04,142 --> 00:24:05,253
Different fields,

333
00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:11,294
like within the government,
like the media production,

334
00:24:13,242 --> 00:24:15,051
within tourism.

335
00:24:15,470 --> 00:24:19,071
Because the need is everywhere,
I would say.

336
00:24:19,516 --> 00:24:27,932
But you need a good network
and marketing to get in there.

337
00:24:28,059 --> 00:24:33,580
I think you need a good field

338
00:24:33,994 --> 00:24:37,904
where of course the demand is high,
where you can earn money.

339
00:24:38,227 --> 00:24:41,935
And then also to work together
with foundations

340
00:24:42,158 --> 00:24:46,704
and would be able to pay for that

341
00:24:48,142 --> 00:24:51,231
in a better way
than the market would offer.

342
00:24:51,644 --> 00:24:52,640
Yes.

343
00:24:55,862 --> 00:25:00,000
Thank you very much
for all this huge knowledge

344
00:25:00,137 --> 00:25:02,483
that you are sharing with us today.

345
00:25:02,617 --> 00:25:04,554
Maybe one last question:

346
00:25:05,222 --> 00:25:10,596
what is the development you foresee
in the field in the next 10 years?

347
00:25:11,461 --> 00:25:19,273
I would certainly believe [in a development]
within the automatic translation,

348
00:25:19,846 --> 00:25:26,895
because there are quite some
[investments] in that field.

349
00:25:27,118 --> 00:25:33,394
I would believe it is only a question
of material that is needed.

350
00:25:33,713 --> 00:25:39,338
Our experience so far
with reading a text, making a concept,

351
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,841
and so many steps

352
00:25:42,807 --> 00:25:46,058
is not that productive.
It is not efficient.

353
00:25:47,681 --> 00:25:50,686
The impact is still too slow.

354
00:25:51,036 --> 00:25:55,992
You should be more efficient
and get into new fields.

355
00:25:56,502 --> 00:26:00,560
Yeah, for sure it is going to be
very interesting, I think.

356
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,351
In the next years
many things are going to happen.

357
00:26:04,019 --> 00:26:07,773
I guess we will be there
to see what happens.

358
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,520
Of course the most important thing is
that the people get access.

359
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,920
Thank you so much for being here today
and sharing all this with us.

360
00:26:18,005 --> 00:26:20,131
Would you like to add anything else?

361
00:26:20,577 --> 00:26:26,957
I would say it is important
to be together in the whole community.

362
00:26:27,116 --> 00:26:33,216
And no to divide,
but to see [ourselves] as one group

363
00:26:33,821 --> 00:26:36,160
with different specialties.

364
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,379
Overall, we want the same.
I think this is important.

365
00:26:40,851 --> 00:26:41,840
That is true.

366
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,840
I think those are really great word 
to finish the interview.

367
00:26:46,942 --> 00:26:54,040
Because sometimes we do get
into these arguments, or fights.

368
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:55,280
At the end of the day,

369
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,771
what we all actually want to do
is provide accessibility.

370
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,494
So thanks a lot for these last words.
I think they are very important.

371
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,120
-Thank you Mrs Bernabé.
-Thank you very much.

372
00:27:05,659 --> 00:27:10,160
This interview has been prepared
by Rocío Bernabé Caro and Piero Cavallo

373
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,520
from the Internationale Hochschule
SDI München, in Germany.

374
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,661
You can reach me at:

375
00:27:15,788 --> 00:27:21,544
rocio.bernabe@sdi-muenchen.de.

376
00:27:23,109 --> 00:27:26,680
The project EASIT has received funding
from the European Commission

377
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,118
under the Erasmus+ Strategic Partnerships
for Higher Education programme,

378
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:38,220
grant agreement 2018-1-ES01-KA203-05275.

379
00:27:38,697 --> 00:27:41,760
The European Commission support
for the production of this publication

380
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,569
does not constitute an endorsement
of the contents,

381
00:27:44,696 --> 00:27:47,078
which reflect the views
only of the authors,

382
00:27:47,205 --> 00:27:50,251
and the Commission cannot be held
responsible for any use

383
00:27:50,425 --> 00:27:53,000
which may be made of the information
contained therein.

384
00:27:53,815 --> 00:27:56,080
This work is licensed under
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385
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,000
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386
00:28:00,764 --> 00:28:02,642
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387
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388
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389
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390
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393
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394
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