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(Ester) We will talk about 
audiovisual news journalism.

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That is, news broadcast
on TV or online.

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Creating the contents is 
a job for journalists.

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But you, Mikael, 
are an expert on accessibility

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to audiovisual media in general.

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Now, you have the opportunity
to share your knowledge with journalists

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and students of journalism.

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One of the issues we would like to highlight


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is how they should go about reaching 
people in need of news in easy language.

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You ran a project in which
you developed a video

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that is accessible 
in a number of ways.

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Can you tell me about the project?

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(Mikael) Yes, of course.

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We did this in the city of Malmö. 
A few years ago

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when we had a lot of theoretical 
background on accessibility

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we wanted to put into practice.


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The best way was to hunker
down and get started.

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Delve into accessibility
and how it affects everyday lives.

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We started a project. 
Here's a screen shot of our website.

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There’s the video project.

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You can watch the video later.


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I’m going to talk about the thoughts 
and ideas we had making the video.

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(Ester) It’s important to plan for
accessibility from the beginning.

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00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,960
No?
That’s what you usually say.

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00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,200
(Mikael) Yeah, exactly.
It's one of the best takeaways.

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Generally, you make a video,


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and then you think, “I’m going
to add a bit of accessibility.”

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But that's really hard.

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You gain a lot from
doing it in the planning stage.

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You lay a good foundation
for good results.

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00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,120
(Ester) What should you think
about when planning?

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00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,960
(Mikael) The first thing that comes to mind
is to have the contents and audience clear in your head.

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It's hard to just say that
your audience is “everyone”.

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Because we all have different challenges.

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But you need to remind yourself 
to be clear in your messaging.

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And not to include
too many topics

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in one and
the same video.

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In that case, it’s better 
to break it into other videos or broadcasts.

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Instead of tackling too many topics.

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(Ester) But the news always deals
with a bunch of different things.

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It’s about various topics.
How should journalists think?

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(Mikael) In the news,
it's natural to talk about


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a bunch of different topics.

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But there’s time in between.

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(Ester) So it's clearly sectioned 
off in the program?

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00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,840
(Mikael) Yeah, exactly.

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(Ester) So in your planning:
“Script and ‘everything’ worked out in detail”...

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Speaker, graphics...
Why does it need to be so thoroughly planned?

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(Mikael) That’s so everyone 
is on the same level.

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From the producer to those 
filming and interviewing.

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To the journalist.

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If you already know before going out 
what you'll be talking about,

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you can do your
planning in advance.

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You know what questions to ask,
what clips you want to get, for example.

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Or what interview clips you want.

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You can start planning
the graphics at that stage.

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In our project, we knew what
the speaker was going to say.

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We thought “easy to read” 
and “plain language” for the speaker voice.

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We even knew what the person being
interviewed was going to say.

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(Ester) Isn’t that difficult
when interviewing politicians?

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00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,440
(Mikael) Yes, absolutely.

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We have the benefit of control. 
For example when there are difficult words,

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we can avoid difficult
words and jargon.

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That can be easy.

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(Ester) What are your thoughts on time?

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We know that many of the people 
who need news in easy language,

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often need extra 
time to reflect.

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00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,640
And to internalize
what’s being said and shown.

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(Mikael) I often hear that 
slow is boring.

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00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,920
I don’t think that’s right.

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At least not in the video
we made for our project.

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The people who watched it said,
“Oh, how nice.

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Here’s a nice, understandable video
that talks about an exciting area.”

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Slow is not the
same as boring.

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00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,720
It’s just clearer
and better for everyone.

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00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,400
(Ester) How do you deal with time?

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00:06:36,780 --> 00:06:40,920
(Ester) Do you go slower 
or do you take breaks?

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00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,920
It automatically goes slower.


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The speaking rate is slower
because the speaker intends to be clear.

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00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,000
We’re not meant to talk about subtitles
but it has to do with them as well.

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00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,160
We can use subtitles
that appear for longer.

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00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:11,600
But you can’t slow things 
down simply for that reason.

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00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,640
It has to go along with
what's happening in the video.

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00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,520
It slows the video down 
but it's much clearer.

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00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,240
(Ester) Let’s talk a bit about
simple visual language.

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00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,800
(Ester) What is it?

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00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,480
It can be simple things
like what you see on the screen here.

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This here is Patrik and
this is taken from the project.

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00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,760
Placing the interview subject
in front of a calm, neutral background.

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00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,200
Not putting the subject in 
a highly trafficked intersection.

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00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,920
You can definitely have ambient sounds.

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00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:57,440
But you should try
to avoid disruptive sounds.

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00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,640
So the interview
is clear.

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00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,280
(Ester) Your screen shot says

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00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,360
to ask people to speak calmly, 
clearly and in plain language.

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00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,880
(Ester) How does that work when you talk
to a random person on the street?

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00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,820
(Mikael) It's a judgment you need to make.
Some people speak clearly and calmly.

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00:08:25,780 --> 00:08:28,880
A lot of people are stressed
by being interviewed.

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00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,520
But you can ask the person
to speak more slowly.

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00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,360
That way,
it's clearer.

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00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,760
(Ester) In the context of news,

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00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,880
if you interview a person
who has trouble speaking understandably,

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Can you as the journalist 
narrate what they’re saying?

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00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,680
What do you think?

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00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,220
(Mikael) That’s a good way of tackling it.

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00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,120
If you hear them use a difficult concept
you can allow the journalist to explain it.

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00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,840
Or, you can ask the person
to answer the question again. 

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00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,920
But to remove the difficult word,
could be jargon, for example.

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00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,920
But I know with time constraints, 
that can be hard to do.

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00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,380
When doing a news
story, you can

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add a voice-over or
speaker who explains

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00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,480
its meaning.

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00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,880
(Ester) Speaking clearly and
clear images go hand in hand, don’t they?

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00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:34,560
(Mikael) Yeah, definitely.
They go together.

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00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,640
It’s often the visual aspects

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that can be adapted
to make things clearer.

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Here, I've listed
six different parts.

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Both about audio components
and visual components.

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In part, I think you
should have contrasts in the audio.

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A simple measure is
to avoid background music.

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00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,480
Background music is often
added for effect.

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00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,240
But for a lot of the hearing
impaired, it becomes garbled.

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00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,640
But there’s a difference
between music and ambient sounds.

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00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,240
Ambient sounds can themselves
be good to make a situation clearer.

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00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,840
“Where are we?”

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It can help a hearing- 
impaired person

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00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,960
or a blind person understand
where the journalist is.

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00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:38,320
(Ester) Could it also support
those with cognitive challenges?

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00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,040
Most definitely.


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00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:48,840
It’s easier to interpret impressions 
when various parts interact.

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00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,280
We can both see and hear.
It makes things much clearer.

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00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,720
(Ester) What happens when what you see 
and what’s being said don’t go together?

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00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,880
How does that affect understanding?

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00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,000
(Mikael) It can be very unclear 
and difficult to follow

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00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:11,560
when you say one thing
and show another.

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00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:17,200
For example, the last bullet point says,
“Avoid using clips when someone is talking.”

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00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,680
It could be that you show...

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00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:26,040
That you hear someone talking
but show images of different...

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00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,880
Maybe you show a flower
in a meadow near the highway.

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00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,120
That doesn’t actually have anything
to do with the highway.

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00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,680
It could get someone thinking,
“Oh no! Will it impact the environment?”

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00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,880
And similar.

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00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,280
Make sure 
that what you talk about

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00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,480
is what’s being shown.

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00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,640
(Ester) But that doesn’t mean...

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00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:55,160
(Ester) If you are interviewing
someone who speaks unclearly,

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00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,120
and you, the journalist, want
to relay what the person is saying.

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00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,640
Can you nonetheless 
show the person who is talking


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00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,720
while using a voice-over?

166
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,880
Or what should you do?

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00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,400
(Mikael) No, I don’t think so.

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00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,760
You don’t want to see one person
talking and hear someone else’s voice.

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00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,320
It’s just all wrong.

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00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:19,800
In that case, you should cut out

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00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:22,680
the parts with
unclear language.

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00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,200
The journalist can relay
what the person said.

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00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,320
And you add images that go 
together with what’s being said.

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00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,560
(Ester) Okay.

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00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:39,800
Another issue I’ve thought about
is switching between clips.

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00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,760
It can be disturbing
to have too many clips.

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00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,680
(Mikael) Now we’re back to
the aspect of time.

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00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,520
Letting the images stay on the
screen so you can take in

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00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,000
what's happening in the image 
before switching it out.

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00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,760
So you understand
what’s happening.

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00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,760
Often, when clips are quick,
maybe just a second or two,

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00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,000
it just flashes by.

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00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,520
Let the clips remain on the screen for longer.

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00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,880
It's a matter of balancing
when editing the video.

185
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,240
Maybe you should let the clip
remain for eight to ten seconds.

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00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:21,800
So you can take in
what’s being shown.

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00:13:22,140 --> 00:13:24,920
It also depends on the image.

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00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,440
If it's an image of a square
where people are milling around,

189
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,420
maybe you want to keep it shorter

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00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,360
than if it’s an image
meant to tell a story.

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00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:43,000
(Ester) One of your bullets deals with keeping
to chronological order, as much as possible.

192
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:49,000
Journalism generally gets right to the point:
“There was a fire...”

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00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,440
(Mikael) Yeah.

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00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,600
(Ester) But when simplifying things
maybe you should

195
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,200
put it into context first?

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00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,720
(Mikael) That can be difficult
when you go out

197
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,080
and need to do
live reporting on site.

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00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,440
In those cases,
maybe the fire is still raging.

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00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,560
You need to have reached
a certain age to understand

200
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,240
that you can jump forward
and backward in a video.

201
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,560
It’s common to start
with how the video ends.

202
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,400
And then rewind to the beginning.
To spark our interest in knowing,

203
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,240
“How did we come to that conclusion
when it started like this?”

204
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,800
But then you have to have reached a certain age.

205
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,720
If you have cognitive challenges
it can be unclear

206
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,040
if you jump around
too much.

207
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,880
Of course you can talk in
an order that is not

208
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,800
purely chronological.

209
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,680
But you can’t jump around too
much in a news story.

210
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,440
The difference between
what is clear and understandable

211
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,760
and what is extremely exciting...

212
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,160
It can be very 
exciting

213
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,560
to see a messy demonstration
with lots of police.

214
00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:08,260
But that can be too much
for someone with cognitive difficulties.

215
00:15:08,620 --> 00:15:12,340
It's a matter of balancing
between the two.

216
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,720
Highly understandable 
or unclear for certain people?

217
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,040
Thank you so much Mikael
for sharing your knowledge with us.